The Indo-Uralic Desire and the Comparative Method

Journal of Indo-European Studies 43, nos. 3-4 (2015): 348-56.

“Response to Kassian et al., ‘Proto-Indo-European-Uralic comparison from the probabilistic point of view’.”

Ringe, Don.

Link

Rarely does a response to a paper become a must-read, when the paper itself deserves only a passing look. But in the case of Don Ringe’s assessment of the latest effort to prove that Indo-European and Uralic languages descended from a common ancestor, this is indeed the case. Alexei Kassian (the ill-famed freak-hunter), Mikhail Zhivlov (unbeknownst to me) and George Starostin (the son of Sergei Starostin) wrote the parody of a scientific paper in which they marshaled as many as 7 IE-Uralic pairs of words (within the “accepted” 50-item wordlist) that should constitute etymological cognates “within the framework of the Nostratic theory” (p. 319) and that were picked as positive matches by the authors’ “formal algorithm” (a permutation test of matches within 13 consonant classes, or “D-classes” named after one of the founders of the Nostratic movement, Aaron Dolgopolsky). Kassian et al. convinced each other that probability that those 7 words are accidentally similar between the two proto-languages is so low, that they just have no other choice but to pronounce Indo-European and Uralic “sisters.” Despite the fact that all the three authors are employed by Russian academic institutions to teach historical linguistics, there’s very little historical linguistics in the paper (hence, those 7 forms don’t form any kind of system, there’s no morphological evidence and there are no regular sound correspondences beside banal formal and semantic “similarities” that were already noticed in the 19th century by scholars such as Vilhelm Thomsen). Linguistic material gets persistently stripped down to a bare minimum and a machine of persuasion in the form of an objective statistical procedure is then turned on in order to convince the world that this impoverished, sterilized and disconnected linguistic material is in fact speaking from the grave to tell the truth that the language families in question descend from a common ancestor. But if only 7/50 forms are offered as “proof” of the Indo-Uralic hypothesis (down from thousands that define the historical reality of the Indo-European and Uralic families), what’s left out there to prove the Nostratic, Eurasiatic and the rest of the Tower of Babel levels of linguistic kinship? But enough of my enlightened mockery of the feeble efforts by a group of young Nostratic enthusiasts to prove their own worth in the eyes of the world’s linguistic community. Let’s hear what Ringe has to say.

1. Kassian et al. confuse similarity with regular sound correspondences: “[T]hey actually privilege words that resemble one another by chance over historically real cognate sets, because the sounds of the former are phonetically similar by definition, whereas regular sound correspondences exist between phonetically similar sounds and between sounds which are no longer similar.” (p. 348).

2. Kassian et al. are attempting to replace comparative methodology with a pseudoscientific construct that groups chance resemblances into “classes” (the 13 consonant clusters based on similar places of articulation) and then pronounces them to be a sign of common descent between languages in question: “[N]o one has demonstrated that D-classes are realistic enough units to be used as a basis for proof of non-obvious linguistic relationships. For that reason alone the authors’ method does not, in fact, come closest to modelling traditional comparative linguistics” (p. 349). (Another reviewer, Brett Kessler, on p. 363, suspects a bias in Dolgopolsky’s original formulation of the 13 classes geared to prove the reality of the hypothetical macrofamily that he was passionate about.)

3. Unlike a similar, 40-stable-item wordlist devised by Søren Wichmann on the basis of a broad sample of languages (see Holman, Eric W., Søren Wichmann, Cecil H. Brown, Viveka Velupillai, André Müller, Pamela Brown, and Dik Bakker. 2008. Explorations in automated language comparison. Folia Linguistica 42: 331-354), Nostraticists’ 50-item wordlist (different from Wichmann’s list by a whopping 10 items) is based on thin air: “The authors must have used a different sample of languages to construct their list, and it cannot possibly have been a larger sample than Wichmann’s; but without knowing what languages were used we have no way of knowing whether the list could conceivably be biased in favor of IU” (pp. 349-50).

4. Even the poor 7/50 words adduced by Kassian et al. have been doctored to look similar and to fit their pseudolinguistic “classified chance resemblances means common descent” method: “It is difficult to avoid concluding that the data have been both cherry-picked and massaged.” (p. 352).

5. 3 out of 7/50 word-pairs adduced to prove the Indo-Uralic hypothesis are actually monoconsonantal roots that don’t fit Kassian et al.’s own requirement of allowing only bi-consonantal roots in their permutation tests. The remaining 4/50 items actually show high probability of being chance resemblances by Kassian et al.’s own statistics: “Thus those three items do not really meet the authors’ two-consonant identity criterion. If we exclude them, only four remain, and as the authors show in Fig. 4 and Fig. 5, four or more such pairs appear in either 32% or 18% of randomized comparisons, again depending on which version of D-classes one uses. Such a result is comparable to results of earlier studies and actually suggests that the earlier studies were right: lexical resemblances between IE and Uralic are enough greater than average to create reasonable suspicions of genetic relationship, but not great enough for statistical proof” (p. 353).

6. Despite the arrival of a new generation of Nostratic enthusiasts armed with fancier persuasion tools, the evidential basis for the Indo-Uralic hypothesis is still the same as it was almost two centuries ago: “A reasonable assessment of the authors’ research is that, though their method might in principle be better than those of their predecessors (leaving aside the problems with the data, see above), they have effectively obtained comparable results” (p. 353).

I admire Ringe’s ability to respond to pseudoscientific nonsense in a poised and respectful manner and to grant another Nostratic comedy of errors a scientific analysis. (At one point he even generously calls Kassian et al. “competent” and hence entitled to their own judgment.) I smile at Ringe’s theatrical disappointment that even the best-of-class statistical procedure has failed to generate proof of the Indo-Uralic relationship and that, considering how advanced our maths is, no new test can possibly be invented to prove the coveted link. And I was rather intrigued by Ringe’s secret belief in the common descent of Indo-European and Uralic languages (“I continue to suspect that there really is a genetic relationship between Indo-European and Uralic,” pp. 355-6).

How can a scholar treat seriously what his own analytical rigor dissects as sheer nonsense? Why does he believe that, if done right, objective tests show that the evidence for the Indo-Uralic linguistic kinship is too sparse to indicate kinship, while at the same time suspect that Indo-European and Uralic are related? Let’s try to answer these questions.

Ringe and the other reviewers admit that IE *wed– ~ Uralic *weti– ‘water’ and IE *nomn– ~ Uralic *nimi– are the most plausible IU cognates if, as Ringe specifies, there really is a genetic relationship. This means that if the two language families are somehow shown to be related, the similarity between those two sets of forms will automatically become a valid indicator that the two families are related. Ringe either generously “hands” those two forms to the proponents of Indo-Uralic genetic unity (who spent so much statistically defending what cannot be shown linguistically), or he employs circular logic or he is in mild collusion with the authors. He supports Kassian et al.’s choice of the Uralic phylogeny, namely of its mainstream version, not of more debatable versions advocated for by such scholars as Tapani Salminen. But Salminen specifically tackles the problem of Uralic *weti– ‘water’, which shows no reflexes in Saami or Khanty, and argues that this form must have been borrowed from Indo-European. If one follows Salminen, the IE and Uralic forms for ‘water’ are indeed related, but not through common descent but through diffusion. Neither Kassian et al., nor Ringe wrote up any response to Salminen.

Ringe would like to believe that comparative method is good for something. Hence, he wants the ‘name’ and ‘water’ forms to be related. But it’s also clear that Ringe and other reviewers are not looking for mathematical proof; they are looking for traditional linguistic evidence, the one that entails sound correspondences and reveals hidden connections between dissimilar forms. And this evidence has not been provided – neither by him, nor by Illic-Svitych, Dybo, Dolgopolsky, nor anybody else. But judging by such suggestive forms as IE *wed– and Uralic *weti– ‘water’ this evidence MUST be there. It’s just comparative method is too weak to furnish it beyond what time has generously preserved for posterity.

The holy grail, it turns out, is not in improving the math but in improving the comparative method. And the tough question that must be asked is why do we think that the proto-Indo-European form for ‘water’ must be reconstructed as *wed-? The conventional cognate set that supports this reconstruction includes such forms as Hitt watar, Gen. wedenas ‘water’, Skrt uda ‘waters’, Slav *woda ‘water’, Germ. *wato:r ‘water’, Arm get ‘river’. Outside of this group of clear cognates, there are forms that must belong here as well but that show formal and semantic aberrations. Arm get means ‘river’; Lat unda means ‘wave’ and not ‘water’; this form and Lith vanduo ‘water’ show an intrusive –n-; Toch war, OIr usce (presumably from *udskio) and Alb uje (< *udriye) lost the middle consonant, while Gk hydo:r, Gen. hydatos ‘water’ demonstrates initial h– (typically from *s).

It appears therefore that even within a well-proven language family formal similarity is often sufficient to establish cognation and even to reconstruct a protoform that would then be used to propose an even deeper genetic link. An Indo-Europeanist’s solution to the unexpected formal variability of the ‘water’ words outside of Hittite, Sanskrit, Armenian, Slavic and Germanic is a declaration that it represents later developments within individual branches. But the phonomorphological conditioning of all these “later” changes has never been fully established, or, in other words, all those consonant deletions and insertions are currently irregular. Ringe is ready to accept the cognation of IE *wed– and Uralic *weti– despite the fact that the reconstruction *wed– is directly and unambiguously supported by the data from just 5 branches of Indo-European. Those branches do furnish forms that show strict formal agreement (unlike the set of divergent forms each of which is different in its own way). But the multiple deviations from them still beg for an explanation. And since, for the past 200 years, all of those irregular reflexes of PIE *wed– ‘water’ have been considered “related” to the regular ones without much progress in explaining the observable pathways of divergence, it’s unlikely that traditional comparative method will ever lead to the clarification of those aberrations. IE *wed– ‘water’ also lacks an etymology. Connecting it to Uralic *weti– ‘water’ leads to a suspicious conclusion that for thousands of years there was no semantic evolution associated with this form.

As I have been arguing for many years in articles and blog posts, the persistent phonological problems found in the Indo-European comparanda and the paucity of solid, persuasive and typologically verified etymologies has, at its root, naive approaches professed by the generations of historical linguists to constructing the cognate sets from which sound laws and proto-linguistic reconstructions are subsequently deduced. Consequently, the sound laws and the reconstructions come out incomplete, chronologically misattributed or flat-out wrong. The so-called “centum-satem” division is one of the unfortunate outcomes of this pervasive cognate set misanalysis. The so-called satem /s/ (< *k‘) and IE *s in reality were the same PIE phoneme showing up as s or k depending on the phonetic environment in all Indo-European branches. The tripartite split of ancient labiovelar phonemes into velar, dental and labial reflexes (depending on the following vowel), which is fully described for Greek (e.g., kyklos, telos and polos are all derived from *kwel-) and has been known to have affected other “centum” languages such as Italic, Celtic and Germanic, was in fact a proto-Indo-European phenomenon because labial and dental reflexes are found next to velar reflexes in the so-called “satem” languages as well.

The reformulation of the Split Labiovelar sound law as proto-Indo-European in age means that many forms reconstructed with /bh/, /b/, /p/ should in fact be reconstructed with /gwh/, /gw/ and /kw/. This applies to the ‘water’ forms in question. Notably, the Celtic root for ‘water’ is *dubro (OIr dobur, Bret dour, Welsh dw(f)r), which forms an isogloss with Slav *duno (< *dubno) ‘bottom’, *debri ‘deep woods’, Lith dugnas ‘bottom’, dubus ‘deep’, dubti ‘plunge, sink’, Latv dubens, dibens, dibins ‘bottom, deep’, dubra ‘puddle’, OPruss padaubis ‘valley’, Goth diups ‘deep’. Lith dugnas ‘bottom’ clearly points to a (labio)velar, which allows one to include the enigmatic Gk hugros ‘wet, moist’ into this set. The morphology (the distinctive heteroclitic –r-/-n– ending marking strong vs. weak cases) is the same in IE *weder-/*weden– and in Celtic *dubro/Balto-Slavic *dugwno-).

One question looms large: what happened in the anlaut and why is there an alternation between *øw– (*wed-/*ud-) and *dw– (*dwegw-/*dugw-)? First of all, Toch war ‘water’ is fully compatible with *dw– as Tocharian regularly loses d– before –w– (Toch A wu, we, Toch B wi– ‘two’ < IE *dwou-/*dwi-) but so do other IE languages in the case of Lat viginti ‘twenty’ (Toch wiki) (< *dwi-). Second, a similar process affected the IE cognate set TONGUE that shows forms such as Slav *jenzyku next to Gothic tuggo and Lat lingua (< Old Lat *dingua), TEAR that shows forms such as Skrt asru next to Gk dakruma and Goth trahan, and LONG that has forms such as Lith ilgas next to forms such as Slav *dolgu and Gk dolikhos. (Slav *velik- ‘great’, Toch walke ‘for a long time’ should be included here as well.)

It’s hard to say for sure whether d– was there from the beginning, or it’s a later phonetic (akin to Gk hardening of IE *y– to *dz– or Arm g < IE *w as in get ‘water’) or a morphological process but it looks like the pattern observed in the cognate sets TEAR, TONGUE and LONG is strong enough to suspect that the same phonetic development affected the cognate set WATER-DEEP. Considering that the d-forms are associated with a more basic meaning of ‘deep’ (from which ‘water’, ‘river’ and ‘wave’ must have evolved), it appears that PIE had a form *dwegw-/*dugw– and not *wed-.

The analysis above will surely raise questions and eyebrows because it’s a one of a kind, innovative and disruptive proposition. And in this particular instance I may end up being wrong. But it’s only this kind of analysis that would allow comparative method, in the absence of ancient lexical attestations, to penetrate beyond the formal resemblances to the underlying sound correspondences.

Although I’m no expert in Uralic languages, the PIE root *dwegw-/*dugw– looks potentially cognate with Uralic *juka ‘river, stream’. Reflexes of *juka are found in each and every Uralic language (Finn joki, Enets daha, etc), including Saami and Khanty, so it does not have the distributional difficulty of Uralic *weti– (reflexes missing in Saami and Khanty) and does not depend on the kind of phylogeny one assumes for Uralic languages. If Uralic *juka and IE *dwegw-/*dugw– are indeed related, then it’s possible that the d-/0– alternation in IE forms comes from the Indo-Uralic glide –y-.

Under this scenario (pending further research, let’s consider it a “thought experiment” for a moment), if *juka is clearly Uralic in origin, *weti– must be an early borrowing from an Indo-European language, just like Salminen suspects. If Indo-European and Uralic are indeed related they are related for a different reason than Ringer or Kassian et al. hope they are. Statistical tests correctly show the sparseness of the current corpus of Indo-Uralic comparanda simply because the underlying comparanda is wrong. Comparative method as developed by 19th century Indo-Europeanists gives a systematic error in proto-linguistic reconstructions. Ringe is right about the limits of statistics, but he is wrong in assuming that the comparative method has no room to evolve. It’s the assumption that comparative method has been fully perfected that makes him want Kassian et al. to be right. In reality, a breakthrough in Nostratic, Indo-Uralic and other megaphyla research can come through the improvement of the comparative method as applied to the primary material from first-order language families, not through the improvement of statistical methods applied to misanalzyed cognate sets and misconstrued protoforms. Then the shared descent between first-order families and the exact phylogeny of Eurasian languages will become more transparent.

keberanian Belanda

Coming out of the field

I am currently back in my apartment in Santa Barbara, enjoying a cup of coffee and cinnamon rolls on my couch, in the warm sunshine by the window. It has been strange adjusting to normal life again: sitting at my computer during the day, going to restaurants to eat, walking in the rain, actual darkness at night, driving cars, Xmas shopping, palm trees, and watching raccoons steal things out of the dumpster.

At the same time it is nice to be back. Being in the field with 3 other scientists means that you spend at least 50% of your daily conversations discussing each other’s research. Over the course of two months, with no access to internet or the computers/labs that contain our data, this lead to a frustrating buildup of ideas and curiosity that I could not follow up on until now.

For the next few months I am looking forward to my next campaign of labwork, writing, and spending time with my fiancée, but I think I will always miss the simplicity of our fieldwork in Antarctica as well as the sheer beauty of the landscape.

 

~Rob for the Antarctica360 team

Demian and Nick collecting one of our last samples.
Demian and Nick collecting one of our last samples.
Waiting for the Bell 212 to take us and our camp gear back to McMurdo station.
Waiting for the Bell 212 to take us and our camp gear back to McMurdo station.
Flying over the Ross Ice Shelf toward McMurdo station.
Flying over the Ross Ice Shelf toward McMurdo station.
Now approaching the height of summer, McMurdo is completely snow and ice free.
Now approaching the height of summer, McMurdo is completely snow and ice free.
A last view of Mt Erebus before boarding the LC-130 Hercules back to Christchurch.
A last view of Mt Erebus before boarding the LC-130 Hercules back to Christchurch.
A makeshift air-traffic-control tower at the ice runway.
A makeshift air-traffic-control tower at the ice runway.
The LC-130 “Hercules” that flew me back to Christchurch.
The LC-130 “Hercules” that flew me back to Christchurch.
Watching the sun set for the first time in two months.
Watching the sun set for the first time in two months.

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Cara Terbaik Untuk Top Negara Anda Lottery

Untuk hadir Anda hak untuk akan menjadi cerdas teknik pas estimasi dalam order, klien mencoba untuk membuat sini possibility kali membagi 120 / 417.451.320. The besar Powerball indah murah sudah dibeli ditemukan at utama dekat Lokasi & Pergilah foya sebuah pasar makanan hadir pada sepasang Bellevue Streets seluruh Newport, Rhode Lokasi . Siswa dari lokal Katolik fasilitas pendidikan selain dari itu dipopulerkan industri tentang shout “Ambil saya dan rekan-rekan saya untuk Anda lihat, ballgame ” partikular ketujuh-inning menarik keluar . Biasanya paling kini Brilliant jutaan earning jumlah sel untuk September 2, diakuisisi 36, 42, 51, 52, 53, dengan super Basket jumlah sangat banyak 40, kemudian kita sendiri Megaplier selalu Y .
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JESUS AND MARY MAGDALENE IN THE GNOSTC GOSPELS

JESUS AND MARY MAGDALENE IN THE GNOSTC GOSPELS

 

 

 

 

Analysis of Martino Gerber and Guliano Lattes, biblical scholars

 
*****************************************************
 

 
JESUS IN THE GNOSTIC GOSPELS
 
 
Gnosticism is a philosophical and religious movement which started in pre-Christian times.
The term is derived from the Greek word  “Gnosis” which means  “Knowledge” .
Gnostics claimed to have secret knowledge about God, humanity and the rest of the universe of which the general population was unaware.
Gnosticism consisted of many syncretistic belief systems which combined elements taken from Asian,
Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Syrian pagan religions, from astrology, and from Judaism and Christianity.

 
The Gnostic gospels have all been proven to be forgeries invented to create a Gnostic view of Jesus.

The Gnostics believe that Jesus’ physical body was not real, but only “seemed” to be physical,

and that His spirit descended upon Him at His baptism, but left Him just before His crucifixion.

They believed that Jesus was only divine and not human, and according to their Greek dualistic philosophy,

God would never touch flesh, which they deemed was evil.  If Jesus had had sexual relations with a woman,

he couldn’t have been the Son of God, he would have been impure, they are Encratite.

The Encratites prohibited sexual relations and marriage,and practiced a chaste asceticism .

Encratite; sexual continence required for salvation. The word “Encratite” comes from the Greek word enkrateia,

 meaning “continence.”

*****************************************************************

MARY MAGDALENE IN THE GNOSTC GOSPELS

 

 
1) The Gospel of Peter: Mary is the first to discover Jesus’ empty tomb and learn of his resurrection from the angel.

Mary Magdalene appears only on Easter morning, when she and her women friends come to the tomb of Jesus to weep for him.

She is described as “a female disciple [Greek mathetria ] of the Lord” (section 50). At the tomb,

Mary and her friends see an angel who announces the resurrection of Jesus, and they run away frightened (section 56-57).

In the Gospel of Peter we find no evidence whatsoever for a marriage between Mary and Jesus.

But, once again, Mary is portrayed as a female disciple of Jesus.

————————————————————————————–

2) The Gospel of Mary: Mary as a source of secret revelation because of her close relationship to the Savior.

At one point Peter asks, “Sister, We know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of women.

Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember,which you know but we do not nor have we heard them” (section 10).

So Mary reveals what the Lord made known to her in a vision,

and several of the disciples were none too impressed by Mary’s purported insights into heavenly things.

 Andrew responded to her revelation by saying “I at least do not believe that the Savior said this.

For certainly these teachings are strange ideas” (section 17). Then Peter asked, “Did he really speak privately with a woman and not openly to us?

 Are we to turn about and all listen to her? Did he prefer her to us?” But Levi speaks up for Mary, “Peter, you have always been hot-tempered.

Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries. But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her?

Surely the Savior knows her very well. That is why he loved her more than us” (section 18).

 The Savior, who is not called Jesus in The Gospel of Mary, even preferred Mary to the other disciples, loving her more than them.

Mary’s relationship with Jesus has clearly entered a new dimension we have not seen before.

But there is nothing here to suggest that Jesus and Mary were married. Jesus’ love for Mary leads him to reveal special truth to her,

not to take her as his wife. Nothing in The Gospel of Mary points to a  spousal relationship between Jesus and Mary.

————————————————————–

 
3) The Gospel of Thomas  :  Mary plays a tiny role in the Gospel of Thomas, asking Jesus a question about the disciples:
 
“Whom are your disciples like?” (section 21).

This is the only place she speaks. She is mentioned at the end of this gospel in a most curious passage, which reads: Simon Peter said to them,

“Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of Life.” Jesus said, “I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.” (section 114).

This passage, in its own strange way, does affirm what we already know from the canonical gospels: that Mary was included

among Jesus’ followers and that Jesus himself intentionally included women. Of course in the biblical record he valued them as women,

 not as beings that had eternal value if they became male. Maleness, in this text, should not be understood literally,

but as a symbol of one’s spiritual or divine nature.

In the Gospel of Thomas,  we find no evidence whatsoever for a marriage between Mary and Jesus, Mary is portrayed as a female disciple of Jesus.

———————————————————————————-
 
Salome in the Gospel of Thomas

61) Jesus said, “Two will rest on a bed: the one will die, and the other will live.”
Salome said, “Who are you, man, that you … have come up on my couch and eaten from my table?”
Jesus said to her, “I am he who exists from the undivided. I was given some of the things of my father.”
<…> “I am your disciple.”
<…> “Therefore I say, if he is destroyed, he will be filled with light, but if he is divided, he will be filled with darkness.”

————————————————— 

Salome asks Jesus to tell her who he is: ”Who are you, man, that you have come up on my couch, and eaten from my table?” Jesus answers,

“I come from what is undivided;” that is, from the divine, which transcends gender. He thereby rejects what her question implies, that his identity involves primarily his being male, as hers does being female. Salome instantly understanding what he means, recognizes that the same is true for her.

Thus she immediately answers, “I am your disciple.”

Maleness, in this text, should not be understood literally, but as a symbol of one’s spiritual or divine nature.

——————————————————–

 Gospel according to the Egyptians

Clement of Alexandria, The Stromata, III.6,45; III.6.66; III.6,92

 

45…. When Salome asked the Lord: “How long shall death hold sway?” he answered: ” As long as you women bear children.”
66…..For when she says, “I would have done better had I never given birth to a child,” the Lord replies to her saying:
“Eat of every plant, but eat not of that which has bitterness in it.”

92…. ”When Salome ‘ asked when she would know the answer to her questions, the Lord said,

When you trample on the robe of shame, and when the two shall be one, and the male with the female, and there is neither male nor female.”

 
The Gospel of Thomas: (the male and female one)
 
 (section 22)And if you make the male and female one, so that the male is no longer male …. the two shall be one, and the male with the female,
and there is neither male nor …

(section106) Jesus said, “When you make the two one, you will become the sons of man, and when you say, ‘Mountain, move away,’ it will move away.”

The Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel according to the Egyptians are the Gnostic  Encratites texts. The Encratites prohibited sexual relations and marriage,

 and practiced a chaste asceticism .
 
———————————————

To make you understand the meaning of “the male and female one”
here is a step of 2 Clement:
 
2Clem 12:5
And by the male with the female, neither male nor female, he
meaneth this; that a brother seeing a sister should have no thought
of her as a female, and that a sister seeing a brother should not
have any thought of him as a male.
2Clem 12:6
These things if ye do, saith He, the kingdom of my father shall come.
 

The Second Epistle of Clement or 2 Clement is an apocryphal New Testament pseudo-text
attributed to the Bishop of Rome Clement (88-97), written in greek between 130 and 160.

——————————————————————————

In the Gospel of Thomas, and Gospel according to the Egyptian, we find no evidence whatsoever for a marriage between Salome and Jesus, Salome is portrayed as a female disciple of Jesus.

——————————————————
 

4) The Gospel of Philip: is a  Valentinian belief system.It is not a gospel in any ordinary sense,

but rather a collection of theological observations written from a Gnostic point of view.

Some but not all of these observations mention Jesus. Two passages refer to Mary Magdalene, who plays a tiny role in this gospel.

The first of these passages reads:

(section 36)

 There were three Mariams who walked with the Lord at all times: his mother and [his] sister and (the) Magdalenethis one who is called his Companion.

Thus his (true) Mother and Sister and Mate is (also called) Mariam’. ]

Much has been insinuated about the word companion, which, in the Greek original is koinonos.

 But, contrary to the wishful thinking of some, this word doesn’t mean spouse or sexual consort.

 It means “partner”, and is used several times in the New Testament with this ordinary meaning

(for example, when Paul refers to himself as Philemon’s koinonos in the Philemon 1:17).

 According to Valentinian tradition, Mary Magdalene was an important member of this inner circle.

 She is seen as an image of the lower Sophia and is described as Jesus’ consort in the Gospel of Philip.

In Refutatio VI: 36,4 (” Christ+Holy Spirit, Soter+Sophia, Jesus+Mary Magdlene”).

The second passage in The Gospel of Philip that concerns Mary is the most suggestive:

(section 59)

[The wisdom which (humans) call barren is herself the Mother of the Angels. And the companion of the (Christ) is Mariam the Magdalene.

The (Lord loved) Mariam more than (all the (other) Disciples, (and he) kissed her often on her (mouth). The other (women) saw his love for Mariam,

 they say to him: Why do thou love (her) more than all of us? 

 The Savior replied, he says to them: Why do I not love you as (I do) her?]

Follow; (section60)

[(While) a blind (person) and one who sees are both in the dark, they do not differ from one another. When the light comes, then he who sees shall behold the light,

 and he who is blinded shall remain in the darkness.]

 The Gospel of Philip might refer to Jesus kissing Mary, but the manuscript has some holes in at the key point!

Even if we suppose that this passage, which appears in no other document, and which was written two centuries after the biblical gospels,

conveys historically accurate information, the passage itself seems to disprove Jesus’ marriage to Mary.

 Surely if Jesus had been married to Mary then his special affection for her wouldn’t have been an offense.

And surely Jesus could have satisfied the disciples’ question by explaining that Mary was his wife. But he doesn’t do this.

 Instead he explains his special affection for Mary by pointing to her ability to see the light, that is, to have knowledge.

Nothing in this passage suggests that Jesus and Mary were married, even if we read it literally.

Moreover, given what is said elsewhere in The Gospel of Philip about kissing (sections 59), it’s possible that this passage isn’t even

meant to be taken literally. The Gospel of Philip about kissing: (section 35)

 [Grace comes] forth from him thru the mouth, the place where the Logos came forth; (one) was to be nourished from the mouth and to become perfected.

The perfect are conceived thru a kiss and they are born. Therefore we also are motivated to kiss one another

to receive conception from within our mutual grace.]

The text may very well use the metaphor of kissing to say that Jesus revealed truth to Mary.

If this is true, the The Gospel of Philip is consistent with what we have seen elsewhere in the Gnostic gospels.

 Among Christian Gnostics, Valentinians were not as severely ascetic as some sects.

They permitted marriage, although, being of this world, it was necessarily a “marriage of uncleanness” in contrast to the true wedding of spirits.

In the Gospel of Philip ,  we find no evidence whatsoever for a marriage between Mary and Jesus, Mary is portrayed as a female with special insight 

and  disciple of Jesus.

——————————————————————————–

5)The Sophia of Jesus Christ

The Sophia of Jesus Christ is a post-resurrection dialogue between the risen Christ and some of his followers, including Mary.

Twice in this gospel Mary asks questions of Christ, such as “Holy Lord, where did your disciples come from,

 and where are they going, and what should they do here?” (section 114). Mary is not singled out further,

 nor is there a suggestion of a marriage to Jesus.

——————————————————————————

6)The Pistis Sophia

The Pistis Sophia is  a revelation of Christ in which Mary plays a prominent role, asking the majority of the questions about all measure of esoteric matters.Mary is praised in The Pistis Sophia as one “whose heart is more directed to the Kingdom of Heaven than all [her] brothers” (Chapter 17).

Jesus says that she is “blessed beyond all women upon the earth, because she shall be the pleroma of all Pleromas and the completion of all completions” (section 19). In other words, Mary will have the fullness of knowledge and therefore spiritual life within her.

 So impressed is Jesus with Mary’s spiritual excellence that he promises not to conceal anything from her,

but to reveal everything to her “with certainty and openly” (section 25). She is the blessed one who will

 “inherit the whole Kingdom of the Light” (section 61).From The Pistis Sophia we see the growing interest in Mary among Gnostic Christians,

who valued knowledge (gnosis in Greek) above all.

She has come to be regarded as a source of hidden revelation because of her intimate relationship with Jesus.

Nothing in this gospel suggests a marriage between them, however.

——————————————————————————–

7)The Dialogue of the Savior

The Dialogue of the Savior, is a dialogue between the Savior (never called Jesus or Christ) and some of his disciples, including Mary.

The disciples ask questions about esoteric religious things, and Jesus gives equally esoteric answers.

Although Mary is one of the frequent interrogators of the Savior, at one point she makes an observation. The text explains,

 “This word she spoke as a woman who knew the All” (Section 139). In other words, Mary has special knowledge of spiritual reality.

There is no hint in The Dialogue of the Savior of a marriage between Jesus and Mary (or the Savior and Mary).

 She is seen, once again, as central among the disciples of the Savior, and as a person with special insight.

—————————————————————————————————

The  Gnostic texts  do not support the theory that Jesus and Mary were married.
———————————————————————————————

GNOSTIC SECTS AND RITUALISTIC SEX

 In some Gnostic groups ritual  of sex magic appears to have been practiced.

In a later text called the Greater Questions of Mary, a very blasphemous gospel:

“Jesus even in front of Mary Magdalene  has sex with a woman whom he has produced out of his side”.

(Epiphanius; Panarion 26.8.2-3)

This text is the only one that speaks of Jesus in this way erotic and blasphemous.
It’s not about marriage, but true rite of sacred sex.

 

 ***********************************************************************

Appendix:
The codes and the origin of these Gnostic Gospels:

*1 )The Gospel of Peter

The present fragment was discovered in 1884 in a tomb at Akhmimin Egypt.

 

———————————————————————————

 *2)The Gospel of Mary is found in the Berlin Gnostic Codex (or Papyrus Berolinensis 8502), .

———————————————————————–

 *3)The gospel of Thomas is a Coptic manuscript discovered in 1945 at Nag Hammadi in Egypt.

Nag Hammadi is a town in northern Egypt where a collection of ancient writings was discovered in 1945.

—————————————————————————————

*4)The Gospe of Philip

The most complete manuscript of the gospel of Philip was discovered in the Nag Hammadi library in Egypt in 1945.

It is written in the Coptic language and is dated to approximately the 4th century A.D.

last of the Docecad was Wisdom, also called Sophia.

—————————————————————————————————–

 *5)The Sophia of Jesus Christ is yet another Gnostic text discovered in the Egyptian Nag Hammadi Library in 1945.

 

——————————————————————————————————————————-

 

*6)The Pistis Sophia  (The Askew Codex ), (the text of a Gnostic myth important to the Valentinian belief system)

————————————————————————————

*7)The Dialogue of the Savior, also written in the second century A.D., Coptic manuscript discovered in 1945 at Nag Hammadi in Egypt. 

*******************************************************************************

Bible version used here is the King James

The Gospel of Philip: www.metalog.org/files/philip.html

 

English Translation and Notes by Paterson Brown

 

Christian Bible Studies

 

https://sites.google.com/site/christanitystudies/

 

 

https://sites.google.com/site/christanitystudies/jesus-and-mary-magdalene-in-the-gnostc-gospels

 

 

The post JESUS AND MARY MAGDALENE IN THE GNOSTC GOSPELS appeared first on ANTI-BLASPHEMY CENTRAL.

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Gelandang 34 tahun mengakui mereka akan percaya ke biasanya dianggap tertinggi Grup terlepas dari mereka di satu waktu diuraikan dia pasti tidak mencoba lebih Man utd. Warna berkaitan dengan The nike jordan liga kecil adalah merah gelap . The Akomodasi bus sekolah sedang lambat, dan di samping kemudian lagi saya akan tidak pernah jangka datang yang akan membantu menyingkirkan tiket seat ditemukan di ini insiden sangat kita dapat ditangkap satu pickup taksi.

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